10 Responses to “Ice, Snow, and No Electricity…..”

1. #1 by RoboLsd
   January 29th, 2010 at 1:40 pm

   I woke up at 7:00am today and turned on the TV to watch the weather and their was a story about a house fire. Also a story about the turnpike was closed all night. And a story about I-35 closing all 8 lanes just north of I-240. So I don’t see why MR is so upset at the electric company they have to put up with this mess just like every one else. So give them a brake. The birds have it rough the bird feeders were covered in ice I had to go out and break the ice off several dozen birds have sown up to eat and try to get warmed up by the house one of them got in though the cat door pour thing didn’t last long the cats had fun chasing it around the house. Just heard a news story about power outages 173,000 right now in OK. Maybe MR has a point. My car is covered with ice about 1/2 inch thick even if I wanted to go some where I couldn’t. The news says the roads are passable just barely. Also the news said that house fire was caused by a high line falling on it. I’m starting to think MR has a good point. Now the news is showing traffic accidents lots of pics. of smashed up cars. The turnpike is closed because the high line wires have sagged down to within feet of the pavement no room for cars to go under them. I’m almost positive MR has a point. Now the weather is on and they are saying we are going to have 3-6 more inches of snow stopping about dark. Roads refreezing over night. They got I-35 open again turns out hot high line wires dropped across the highway some how no one was killed. You know MR has a point. If the electric lines were buried the first three stores I hear this morning would not have happened. Wonder how the owner of the house fire fills about it. The bird that got in is smarter then my cats it just flue buy me. I caught it a let it out.
2. #2 by Sunn
   January 30th, 2010 at 1:13 am

   Well, this is Oklahoma. Having lived here all my life, all is I can say is: business as usual for the way this city operates.
   Typical Oklahoma weather. We can’t have just a pretty snow, it’s always accompanied by the damned ice & wind, to make sure everyone is miserable.
   I wish I would have had the good sense to move elsewhere; before I knew what hit me, life
   dictated I stay put.
3. #3 by Jek
   January 30th, 2010 at 2:43 pm

   Whoa MR Whoa! I was about to refer you to a previous comment I made on a similar post in 2005 when it occurred to me that OG&E might have done a cost benefit analysis since then. A search yields the following report: Oklahoma Corporation Commission’s Inquiry into Undergrounding Electric Facilities in the State of Oklahoma. Click here for the full report. The impetus for this report was the big 2007 storm, as reported here at MRC. Below is the rather lengthy Executive Summary. We still talking major bucks to bury all power lines. The good news is that there are some affordable measures to take that will decrease the impact of inclement weather. (See the Summary of Staff Recommendations at the end.)

   Executive Summary

   The purpose of this report is to gather, develop and provide the Oklahoma Corporation Commission with relevant information to assist the Commissioners in making an informed decision as to what actions, if any, should be taken regarding future plans and development to protect electric plant in the State of Oklahoma from weather events to assure reliable service for state electric customers.

   The need for this study surfaced when on December 8 and continuing through December 10, 2007, the State of Oklahoma experienced one of the most disruptive ice storms in the state’s history. The Commission’s Customer Service Division reported the storm resulted in more than 600,000 homes and businesses across the state being without electric service. Many customers were without electric service for several days while others were without service for a week or more. The Oklahoma State Medical Examiner’s Office reported 29 storm-related fatalities. Of this total, nine died in house fires, two died of carbon monoxide poisoning, and two died of hypothermia (there were also 16 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents directly resulting from the storm). The deaths not occurring in vehicle accidents are directly attributable to power outages as electric customers engaged in various risky tactics to keep warm in their powerless homes. There was also one lineman injured and hospitalized as a result of an injury related to power restoration efforts. This storm followed by less than 12 months another “storm of the century” in which rural portions of Oklahoma suffered even greater physical damage to the electricity infrastructure, although loss of life was less and the homes and businesses affected were fewer.
   Following this storm and cleanup efforts, the Oklahoma Corporation Commission conducted a meeting on January 7, 2008, to discuss the impact of severe storms on state utilities. More specifically, the meeting was conducted to discuss advantages, disadvantages, and feasibility of moving more aggressively to bury power lines, as well as the impact burying electric lines may have on electric customers across the State of Oklahoma. The meeting was attended by city and county officials, state lawmakers, and representatives from various environmental groups, electric utilities and cooperatives, and telephone companies, as well as the general public.

   As a result of the Commission’s meeting and the overall interest in addressing storm outage issues, the Commission’s Public Utility Division Staff made a review of various studies on the topic of undergrounding. The review included a study completed by the Edison Electric Institute and other studies completed for and by the states of Florida, Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia and Michigan. The Michigan Public Service Commission produced the most recent study in the review on November 21, 2007.

   Staff’s review of this issue also included meeting on January 10 and January 15, 2008 with representatives from Oklahoma’s two largest investor-owned electric utilities, Public Service Company of Oklahoma (PSO) and Oklahoma Gas and Electric Company (OG&E), to gain additional insight about the potential of undergrounding electric transmission and distribution facilities. On January 16, 2008, Staff issued an extensive data request to all retail electric utilities and cooperatives operating in the State of Oklahoma, in order to gain additional information about utility operations and activities affecting utility response to storm outages. The Staff also met with members of the Oklahoma Climatological Survey on February 1, 2008, to discuss the impact of severe weather conditions and the frequency of such conditions, which will likely continue to have a negative impact on Oklahoma’s electrical plant and Oklahoma customers. On February 15, 2008, Staff held a meeting with Mr. Fred Liebe, deputy director of the Oklahoma Department of Emergency Management to understand the role of DEM in disaster situations and its involvement with the electric utilities and cooperatives. Information was also gathered from Oklahoma Forestry Services within the State Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry, the Oklahoma Insurance Department, the Highway Traffic Safety Office within the Department of Public Safety, and the Oklahoma Tax Commission.
   Information gathered from the various in-depth commission studies that were analyzed, clearly indicated that requiring electric utilities to underground all of their facilities is generally not a feasible solution. The cost to underground all transmission and distribution facilities in any state would likely run into the billions of dollars, and the potential impact on customers would be significant, to say the least approaching thousands of dollars per customer.

   No public utility commission has found a funding mechanism that will permit undergrounding of electric facilities to be completed on any sort of universal or fast track basis. However, commissions have attacked this problem by addressing very specific parts of the electric grid, e.g., poorly performing circuits, lines along road rights of way undergoing construction, all secondary line extensions, etc.

   The potential financial impact of undergrounding all electric facilities is generally accepted to be in the billions of dollars, which would cause an enormous and impractical burden to customers. For example, there are approximately 8,551 miles of main (or feeder) distribution lines and approximately 34,600 miles of lateral distribution lines in Oklahoma. Using information supplied in response to the Staff’s January 16, 2008 data request, the cost to underground existing overhead main and lateral distribution lines is estimated to be between $435,000 and $2.5 million per mile, depending on certain conditions, resulting in an estimated statewide cost of $30.5 billion to underground only distribution lines.

   The $30.5 billion does not include burial of transmission lines, which require special treatment due to heat-dissipation issues not present with distribution lines. Oklahoma has approximately 7,500 miles of transmission facilities. Oklahoma electric utilities had a difficult task estimating the cost to underground these facilities in their response to Staff’s data requests. Moreover, Edison Electric Institute states, “Overhead transmission lines are much more difficult to place underground and were not considered as part of this report.” In fact, of all the out-of-state reports that Staff reviewed, only the 2005 Florida study estimated the cost to underground transmission facilities. When the Florida study was conducted, the State of Florida had about twice as many miles of transmission line as currently reported in Oklahoma. The 2005 study reported that to underground existing overhead transmission lines in Florida would cost an estimated $51.8 billion or approximately $3.6 million per mile. Using Florida’s estimated cost to bury transmission lines as a surrogate, the cost to underground Oklahoma’s electric transmission lines could easily reach $27 billion. To put these numbers into perspective, consider that the State Equalization Board’s determination of funds available for legislative appropriation in Fiscal Year 2009 is approximately $7 billion, making the estimated cost of burying all electric lines in Oklahoma more than six times the annual State budget. The cost is also roughly four times the total value of all centrally assessed public utility assets in the State, as determined by the Tax Commission. Monthly electric bills would have to increase $80 to $260 for 30 years to pay for the cost of burial; contingent upon how much of the electric network is placed underground.

   The following is a comparison of the advantages of each type of conductor system:
   Overhead Systems
   * Cost: Overhead conductors’ number one advantage. Significantly less cost especially during initial construction.
   * Longer life: 30 to 50 years vs. 20 to 40 for underground lines.
   * Reliability: Shorter outage duration because of faster fault-finding and faster repair.
   * Loading: Overhead circuits can more readily stand overload conditions.

   Underground System
   * Aesthetics: Underground conductors’ number one advantage. Much less clutter.
   * Safety: Fewer opportunities for public contact with system components.
   * Reliability: Significantly fewer short and long outage durations.
   * O&M: Overall lower maintenance because of less vegetation management expense, but other issues must be considered.
   * Longer Reach: Less voltage loss because reactance is lower.

   Summary of Staff Recommendations
   It is commonly accepted that undergrounding electric lines is an extremely expensive undertaking. However, targeted undergrounding along with other hardening remedies could have a significant impact on the hardships that result from a major ice storm and the electric outages that typically follow. Legislative, administrative, and personal actions are needed to create a hardened power system in Oklahoma. The PUD Staff believes that the following recommendations should be given consideration as an alternative to harden the network without incurring the enormous cost associated with full undergrounding:

   1. Require more aggressive vegetation management;
   2. Bury all new lateral distribution lines except where low population density makes it impractical;
   3. Bury existing lateral distribution when requested by a majority of customers in a neighborhood;
   4. Identify fully urbanized main distribution lines and require burial when wire is replaced;
   5. Require utilities to underground distribution lines when relocating for major road and highway projects;
   6. Harden all highway-crossing electric lines identified as causing disruptions during storms because of falling on the roadway;
   7. Require utilities to erect self-standing poles in strategic locations for transmission lines and targeted distribution lines;
   8. Harden worst-performing circuits;
   9. Bury drop lines and/or create a pilot program to test newly available “service entrance disconnect systems”;
   10. Create incentives for “smart-grid” installations allowing for rerouting of electric power around downed lines, transformers, and other equipment;
   11. Encourage back-up self-generation for businesses and residences; and
   12. Require back-up self-generation for vital services.
4. #4 by Sunn
   January 30th, 2010 at 7:39 pm

   jek, you lived in Oklahoma, for some time didn’t you? Did you not live here long enough to know how the government works here?

   AT & T has found enough capital to bury their cables for their cable tv/internet services.

   How about the stimulus dollars to improve infrastructure; Jobs, better environment, improved services. Oh yeah, I forgot, we’re fighting two wars right now & helping poor Wall Street fund bonuses for their execs; the feds are all tapped out.
   Back to Oklahoma. The first improprieties I recall are in the 50’s, when politican George Miskovskey conned the public into building the Turner turnpike. After paying for it to be built, then they charged us to use it.
   I have to side with MR on this one.However, I do appreciate your post; quite informative & food for thought. With all due respect to MR, You are probably the most intelligent & MVP of this community .
5. #5 by RoboLsd
   January 30th, 2010 at 10:24 pm

   As I was reading that report JEK I thought of about half of there recommendations. I like them and I know just burying all the lines will never work. But they need to do something and so far all they can do is say burying all the lines is to expensive. How about giving us a tax break on wind power and solar power #11 just for a start.
6. #6 by huskysooner
   January 30th, 2010 at 11:18 pm

   Nice summary, Jek. And it doesn’t even address the issues of inefficiency and reactive power issues for underground lines, which makes it a crappy choice for long-range distribution.

   Sunn, I’m guessing it’s much cheaper to bury fiber than 110 kV electrical lines.
7. #7 by MRambler
   January 31st, 2010 at 10:51 am

   Jek, I have to admit all those reports by our fine public officials and OG&E representatives look really good on paper…… And, I quite agree with most of the recommendations put forth….. Did you catch the part about the loss of human life directly attributed to the loss of power?….. What kind of price do you attribute to a person’s life?….. I understand that this cannot be an overnight change, but, I believe the electric companies have been riding the gravy train much too long at the taxpayer’s expense……

   All those recommendations were made after the 2007 Ice Storm, which by the way, I had no electricity for over a week, although, everyone within a half a block in either direction did….. I live on the wrong side of the tracks as they say – bottom on the repair list… Anyway, the truth of all those fine recommendations resulted in tree trimming trucks out for about 3-4 weeks after power was restored to the 600,000 customers….. That’s it, I’ve not seen any action taken on any of the other recommendations……

   Let’s see, Christmas Eve: we had the worst blizzard in Oklahoma history – Thousands without power – Middle of January: 40,000 without power due to abnormal wind storm, and now, about two weeks later, we have 150,000 without power….. Most of these outages were in THE SAME LOCATIONS!….. It gets tiring after a while when you hear a forecast of incoming bad weather….. They tell you to stay home where it’s SAFE! I say HA!…. How is safe when it’s 12 degrees outside, wind blowing 40-60 mph, snowing like crazy with 1″ to 1 1/2″ ice under it, and NOTHING WORKS – YOU HAVE NO POWER – NO HEATER – NO LIGHTS – ZIPPO! Of course, they tell you to BE PREPARED – Go out and buy a generator – do the electric companies job for them….. Sorry, there are too many people with their hands in the pie for any change to be made….. The electric companies with all their repair crews…. It keeps them busy year round and they pass the cost on to the consumer, sweet,and don’t forget all the companies who make generators, batteries, flashlights, candles, gas heaters, propane dealers, etc., etc….. It’s BIG business and I don’t foresee any change, unless, UNLESS, enough of the population unites and forces the issue, which, is very unlikely……

   Oh, by the way, we do have some buried lines in the OKC area – Brick Town (I call it Prick Town), a downtown play resort area for the rich paid for by the taxpayers, and, certain areas of NW OKC, where people, like the owners of the former Seattle Sonics, live……

   Sunn, “We Gotta Get Out Of This Place” – Unfortunately, I’m like you, I’m in over my head and rooted in so tight, it’s hard to see daylight, especially though the snow, ice, and shorted electric lines….
8. #8 by Jek
   January 31st, 2010 at 1:20 pm

   “You cannot change the laws of physics.” -Scotty

   Sunn, you are correct; I have lived more of my life in OK than anywhere else. I have very few memories during all those years of massive power loss, power lines down, and death. It seems that only recently (the last 5 years) that Oklahoma has had large, recurring power outage issues. I recall one OU professor touting OG&E as the most reliable electric company in the US. That was over 15 years ago. If this were my problem, I’d first try and determine if these occurrences are likely to happen again (or were they one-offs). If yes, then I’d look into possible solutions and their costs. The report quoted above estimates burying all lines at $27billion, which is more than 6 times the annual state budget. MR asks: “What kind of price do you attribute to a person’s life?” Actually I believe this is well-defined in law, at least related to death. I found one reference that puts the value of the remainder of life between $65K and $488K per year of expected life. (The range depends on a variety of different factors.) However, I do not know if this applies to “Acts of God”. Some questions:

   1> Should OG&E be held responsible for these lives?
   2> Is having electricity a right of the people?

   It’s easy to complain that power lines aren’t buried, but you cannot fault OK for doing nothing. This report shows that they are responding to the problems. Does anyone here know for sure that progress is not being made on the recommendations?

   (BTW, thanks Sunn for the compliments… I’m not sure on the intelligence part though 🙂 )
9. #9 by Sunn
   January 31st, 2010 at 6:11 pm

   Just sour grapes, i suppose. The old saying “If you don’t like it, leave it.” Well, I didn’t leave; reaping what I have sown.
   I need to start looking for the good in things. I was told long ago, that there is good in anything that may happen, if you look hard enough. Also, it can always be worse; i.e. New Orleans, Haiti. So, thanks for setting me straight(er) jek.
10. #10 by RoboLsd
    January 31st, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    The real problem is politics. The electric companies, the share holders of the electric companies, the government, the costumers, and MR would like to fix the problems. However no one would like to pay to fix the problems. The electric companies think that if they hold their ground and let the systems get old and unreliable that the costumers will make the government pay to harden the system. In the mean time we get to live without power when we need it the most. If you ask me someone needs to make the share holders step up and do the recommendations in JEK’s report.

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